Curse

Gaile Gray · Jan 19, 2007, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Hi, there,

At the request of the designers, I'm starting a thread to collect a brief, bullet-point style of commentary on the changes to Heroes' Ascent. You can be assured that we will be reading longer threads and posts, as well. But for now, a listing of the various major changes (you can nab that from the Update Notes, if you wish) with your suscinct impressions, would be very useful!

For instance:

Return of Burial Mounds: Like it, don't like it.
Removal of Scarred Earth: (a few quick thoughts)
Other HA changes: Name and brief commentary (and yes, comments on subcategories welcome)

If you want to give explanations in subsequent or other threads, or discuss or debate the opinions and impressions listed, that's great, too , and they will be read!

Thanks a bunch.

Y O U Lo Se · Jan 19, 2007, 11:32 PM // 23:32

I prefer the Burial Mounds over Scarred so that's ok (I must say the NEW burial mounds sinds you made some blockings so teams cant run around forever).

Altars and HoH look nice on paper.

Not sure about the Murder Ball in HoH, auto-win for the defending team? Or a lot of AoE teams spamming to kill the blockers? Looks like an auto-win to me..

Lifeinthefridge · Jan 19, 2007, 11:32 PM // 23:32

OK first of all it was really highly expected that you would add new maps and it was said by alpha testers that money and time were put into this update but just seems like another lazy attempt Burial mounds coming back is ok but the chokepoints need to be fixed the map looks like a 6 team area still the rock int he middle needs to be moved over and the map shaped more like underworld, besides that scarred earth coming back isnt really something to rejoice about. As much as I hate it its necessary to be part of HA but the lever should be removed also

thats all i have to say for now

~edge bomber

nekopowa · Jan 19, 2007, 11:36 PM // 23:36

No changes were actually made to make HA more welcoming to new players, which i've expected. So i'm pretty dissapointed on that side. For the rest... No complaints here, i'm not experienced enough to give them.

Mightywayne · Jan 19, 2007, 11:42 PM // 23:42

I wouldn't imagine 8v8 working too well with the new additions.

I'd just like to say that I'm glad ANet decided to use the scoring system. Seriously... it was pretty lame before. 3 teams would literally sit there for a bit, then the FIRST SIGN OF MOVEMENT, everyone would jump in.

I'd like to see a way for people to stop being double-teamed by 2 other teams simply because they're from another country. I mostly say this because every time I go to the HoH, I try to whisper the other Americans like, "Hey, think we can team up and defeat Europe?!" But do they listen? No. One time someone whispered me saying they'd command the team to attack us first simply because I wanted to win favor for us.

Enough about stories. The last I'd like to see is favor support for the poor little countries who never win. Poor taiwan. Poor korea, and Japan, and... I forgot the last one. Anyway. I'd like to see a handicap in place for them. Maybe, a random 2% morale boost, or... +1 health regen, or even both, (or more) dependant upon how long it's been since they've had favor.

That'd be cool.

KEEP 6V6!

Randomway Ftw · Jan 19, 2007, 11:45 PM // 23:45

I'm going to bloody honest with you Gaile, ANET did not listen to HA players at all. All they did was listen to the PVErs and GvGers who said altar maps suck. Very few positive changes all these changes did was turn HoH into a big AB/PVE scrubfest. ANET should have done the smart thing and brought back 8v8 and burial giving us a chance to HA in a balanced non-build wars 8v8 environment. Instead anet took 100% of their advice from the Guild Hall and PVEers who never played HA in the first place.

Seriously ANET, WTF?

Inde · Jan 19, 2007, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Everyone, stick to the bullet points in this thread.

drekmonger · Jan 19, 2007, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Looking forward to seeing how the new mechanics work.

The damage boost for capping altars should make for some bloody matches. Murderball could be hilarious or a mess. Or a hilarious mess. Will be fun to watch for a weekend at least.

Wondering if kill count mechanics might be somewhat confusing for ... less studious .... players.

Reward for HA remains unimpressive.

The team size debate hardly matters at all to me.

Dalyinx · Jan 19, 2007, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Broken Tower: 10 minutes is way too long; there should be a "lead by x kills" win condition, too. I'm assuming the same is true for other kill count maps.

supaet · Jan 19, 2007, 11:59 PM // 23:59

I'm sorry to bring up the 6v6 vs 8v8 issue in this thread. But I must say that the new HA is not right because it is impossible to make a build that does well in all those differnt type of winning conditions especially with only 6 people in one team.

So at the end, the new HA makes matches depend on luck even more than before.

I still have not played it yet so I will give it a shot this weekend.

Mightywayne · Jan 20, 2007, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Overnite

-HA is dead and will remain so

(aren't you optimistic...)

I also agree that 10 minutes is a tad too long. 8 would be nice, come to think of it.

Sarevok Thordin · Jan 20, 2007, 12:12 AM // 00:12

No new changes affecting welcoming new players in, big disapointment

GOOD call for the random HoH games, should make things a tad more interesting than an interrupt mesmer fest and so on.

Hikki Utada · Jan 20, 2007, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Return of Burial Mounds: Like it
Removal of Scarred Earth: Indifferent.
Other HA changes: If the Altar Cap and HoH change are permanent, some pvpers are likely to ragequit guildwars, or move to pve... I think these changes are too drastic to be implemented all at once.

Dione Davore · Jan 20, 2007, 12:20 AM // 00:20

My view of things after a few runs in HA.

I looked forward to the changes and what do I see after the first couple of runs?
Heck, our Build still works and it had a few skills people where whining about. Cool, so we went in with the same old good stuf and ended up killing a lot

Heroes Ascent as it was had few different Builds that were played. If you didn't played along with the meta-game you're likely to go down. The meta-game had Builds that were based on a few favourite skills that where either a bit "overpowered" or "don't work properly". These skills are still there and as I was watching the observermode the Builds are still the same.

The changes to "broken tower" and "courtyard" are stupid. It turned into a bashing contest. Take as much damage as possible and kill as much as possible. Why shouldn't you go in first? Because you get ganked by two teams because you are ahead. So either I should wait or run like 5 minutes after I have 15 kills. So it doesn't have to do anything with having skill using your skills. You just can't defend for 10 min (! Way to long) against 2 teams that want to bash you for having the most kills.
Let alone that holdingbuilds are of no use cause you are probably not gonna kill enough.
What should be done?
- Maybe a win-condition to be added: You win when 10 kills ahead.
- or leave it as it was...

Hall of Heroes:
Holding builds are gone. The fights should be interesting because the chances of winning are equal to all teams from the start. Altho I would like to see an advantage for the holding team. The requirement of a build that can handle different requests is needed but not to get there.

Except for the winning conditions I think the changes would be uncool for HA.
The Builds remain the same and the map-conditions on the two altar-maps are stupid. I think you lose more than you win. I can't imagion new players would think of this as "more interesting" and "having more chance to win".

That's it for now

Let's see what I think of it after the weekend when I seen more.

Kakumei · Jan 20, 2007, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Removal of Scarred Earth: Yay yay yay holy god I hated this map so much please leave it gone forever.

Return of Burial Mounds: I'd prefer it to be returned to its original 6-man glory, but I guess this is an okay compromise.

Other: I love the new Altar mechanic, though 10 minutes is far, far too long. 5 minutes would be great!

Dragonious · Jan 20, 2007, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Good idea removing scarred earth while adding burial mounds AND slimming it up for 2 teams. The alter times do sound a tad bit long and I can't say anything for HoH yet because I didn't get that far yet. Farming lightbringer points now <3

Zomgtronned · Jan 20, 2007, 01:59 AM // 01:59

First of all i would like to say i do agree with some of the changes to ha but some i am very much against. I do like the fact that burial mounds was brought back. It is a very good map and fun to play. I also like the Fact that Scarred Earth was Removed. The map was to long for 2 fame. That is all for my list of likes. Dislikes are as follows: Alter map Style is why i HA in the first place i really do not like the way the alter style was simply thrown out. For example Hall Of Hero's And Courtyard. These Two maps are my Most liked Maps id like to see them stay as they were. But maybe keep 8 min match on halls. The kill count system Can Stay on Broken tower but i See A huge 2 on 1 "gank" fest happing here. Thanks for your time.

Gaile Gray · Jan 20, 2007, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Designers feel that Broken Tower and Courtyard are indeed playing too long. They're considering a change to 7 minutes, instead of the current 10.

It will run at 10 this weekend, of course, but thinking about the current experience and one at 7 minutes, how does that sound to you for a potential change?

You just got tomahawked · Jan 20, 2007, 02:28 AM // 02:28

I like EVERYTHING EXCEPT no altar on HoH. I loved altar on HoH. It's almost as bad as adding a lever and taking out a good map

. Everything else is great.

P.S.
Sandstorm needs a nerf.

Ranger Li · Jan 20, 2007, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Well, I'm glad we have a forum to voice opinion

Burial Mounds
- Overall, I'm pleased with the implementation, there was no reason to remove this match in the first place and it is a great asset to Heroes Ascent with the lack of 1v1 matches. When Burial Mounds was removed, I mourned, now, I hope it is kept. Burial is another map, similar to Underworld that weeds out the inexperienced but still makes it a possible win, Unlike Broken Tower(previously to this update) where a team could get a 1 fame win, be ganked on Broken, and sent back to rung one of the ladder

Removal of Scarred Earth: I'm mostly indifferent, I didn't mind it then and I don't mind it too much now. It was a fun map to play since it was difficult but often time was just much too long, or you'd play a very well fought match with one team and then simply lose to a "better" team, not neccessarily outskilled, but due to your build.

Altar Maps and Modifications: I'm not that happy with it completely, yes it does eliminate the ramifications of holding, but the conditions are too unfocused. A team (especially in 6v6), is well adept to changing the circumstances to vary its style in a varying Map (HoH). The Kill-count idea may look fantastic on pen and paper, but after a few hours of HA Earliar with some friends, the kill system is...well..flawed im my opinion. First and foremost, 10 minutes to achieve kills is MUCH too long. The kill-counts often force teams to just gang-up on the winning team, for example: Team A might have 11 kills, team B with 5, team C with 6, Teams B AND teams C will unknowingly both target Team A, causing the winning team to lose and a losing team to win depending on where Team A Focused their attacks. This system is also very spike based compared to that of pressure teams. Pressure teams usually take slightly longer to kill and are better suited for focused matches, in this 3 -for- all kill count, the pressure team is a distinct disadvantage to a fast and killing spike, such as Ranger spike or Anything really. Heavy AoE teams also have an advatage due to their abiltity to act quickly. These changes have not only reduced HA to a multitude of ganks, but have also reduced strategical play. In the first versions of Broken Tower (1v1 Altar) and the Courtyard/HoH (1v1v1) altar, the team that had held had to consider the opposing teams, neutralize their strengths to hold. In this new system, a "holding" team does not exist, which eliminates the point of an "Altar" in itself, it has become a "bashing" contest in order for a team to achieve the highest number of points. The Relic-capture system is sketchy at best, a 60 second run from a relic ->ghost can be stopped fairly easily by a team with just one or two snares and a competent bodyblocking team, allowing the defending team to just outsnare and run their own when given the chance.

Personal Reccomendations:
-Maintain the Implementation of Burial Mounds - There really isn't a downside
-Reimplement Scarred Earth - It is a classic map and its removal is similar to Burial Mounds removal - Fueled by compalins but there is no need
-Remove the new Altar system, Revert to a 1v1 Broken tower with time limit 6 minutes.
-Courtyard change to 3-team Altar map 6 minute time
-HoH change to a 3-team, or even a 5-team altar map with 6 minutes or 10 minutes respectively

Though I Do have a few questions:
-How do these changes help fix the problem of overpowered/overused builds in HA?, FoTMs will ALWAYS exist, a kill-count system just embraces these over-offensive FoTMs, I would reccomend a reimplication of the 8v8 System but that is a very picky topic here, I even question the implication of a 6v6 system...why make a system that reduced the counters to FoTms if that was to solely better HA's metagame, ah but this is offtopic and I'll save it for when the time comes.

Thank you for your time and efforts.